136. Talking MENOPAUSE And Low Libido With Health And Sex Expert Cindy Scharkey

You've spoken and we've listened. So many husbands and wives have expressed need during this stage of life... menopause.  How it affects libido, and what you can do about it! In this episode Nick and Amy talk all about menopause with health care expert Cindy Scharkey.  Cindy has over 35 years experience in the industry and answers many of the common questions.

What is menopause? 
How does it impact sexual intimacy and libido? 
How long can menopause last?
What can a husband do to support his spouse during this time?
How do you keep sexual intimacy alive during these years?

Even if menopause hasn't impacted your relationship yet due to your stage in life, this is an episode you will want to listen to. 

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Transcript

Hi and welcome to episode 136 of the Ultimate Intimacy Podcast with Nick and Amy, and today's guest we are so excited to have. We've brought her back from a great episode we did a while ago and we have Cindy Sharkey back with us today to discuss an important subject that all of you have been asking about, which is menopause. So, cindy, welcome back to the podcast. We are so excited to have you. I know our audience is going to be excited to listen to this podcast as well, as it's so needed, so thank you for joining us again. 

Nick: 0:58

Oh, I'm delighted to be with you again. 

Cindy: 1:01

Will you just tell us a little bit about your background? Cindy's amazing and is such a great sex and health expert, so tell us a little bit about yourself. 

Nick: 1:10

Sure thanks. I am a nurse. I've been a nurse for over three decades. I did a lot of work in women's health and I just really saw the need for sex education, especially for women really for all. But my niche is women and that's who I speak to and educate on a daily basis. So I just feel really passionate that if women have education, they could have such better sex and a lot more confidence and joy and experience a lot more pleasure. So I have a podcast and I have a blog and I do workshops and I'm just living the dream, talking about sex every day. 

Amy: 1:53

Well, you're amazing at it, and what I love, too, is even though you're talking to women. As a man, if I hear someone an expert, talking about how a woman can be, enjoy more pleasure, things like that I'm absolutely going to listen, and because I want to know, as a husband, how I can make that better as well, too. 

Cindy: 2:14

I think most husbands do Feel the same way. 

Amy: 2:17

Yeah, absolutely. So. Jumping in, we're talking about menopause today and I think the first question maybe we need to ask is what is menopause? Because I'm approaching 47. I honestly have really other than Harry and all you get hot flashes and things like that. 

Cindy: 2:34

I really don't even know what menopause is to be honest with you, I think there's a lot of men that don't know exactly what that entails. 

Amy: 2:42

There's a lot of women that just hit them on the side of the head. They're like what is this? What am I going through? 

Nick: 2:47

Yeah, yes, yes, I think it's sad that we don't have education through the stages of our lives and I find this every day with couples and then it's really hard to go into these changes and seasons and transitions with no education around what's happening with our bodies, what's happening with our hormones, what's happening with our sex lives, and so people think menopause is just one little day or tiny season and really it's a whole time of transition and it can be lengthy. So let's define terms. I mean menopause actually means not having a period for a year that marks menopause. You have not had a period for a full year. 

Amy: 3:40

You have not had a menstrual cycle. 

Nick: 3:43

So the average age of that is 50 to 52-ish. However, there's a whole transitional season before that. That is premenopause and that's a lot of the time you're talking about specifically and I think people associate it with menopause. However, it's a whole transition of premenopause and that includes perimenopause. I love Nick's like okay, tell me more, I'm sinking. 

Amy: 4:14

He's like I'm just cutting his sister. Yeah, part of me is like oh wait, I got how many years. No, I'm just stuck. 

Nick: 4:19

Right. Well, this transition time is all of the time leading up to this menopause moment, so to speak. But that whole year of waiting and seeing if you're going to really have a period for a year is all part of perimenopause and a lot's going on. You have a lot of change in your hormones and this can last for years. So your progesterone is dropping and fluctuating, your estrogen's fluctuating and could go up, it can go down, and there's just a lot going on and people think, oh, the hot flashes right, like you had mentioned. But the biggest sign for people to look for that they're entering into this stage is irregular periods, meaning missing a period, having extra periods, irregular bleeding, heavy bleeding, spotting in between. I talk like a nurse, remember, so you've had me on before. 

Amy: 5:20

So I'm going to use all the right terminology. 

Nick: 5:26

So that could go on for five to 15 years. It's really a huge range for a lot of. 

Amy: 5:32

So it can be that long, huh, wow, yeah. 

Nick: 5:36

So hot flashes get all the press so to speak, but the irregular periods is what is? You know? It's like, it's like you're playing roulette every month. You know, you don't know what's coming, what it's going to be, how it's going to be. That is and that is really really hard a hard stage. 

Amy: 5:59

I mean think about that. I think it could be hard for a woman because they're like what in the world is going on? 

Nick: 6:04

And then also the husband is like what in the world is going on and what can I do to help? 

Amy: 6:08

But then, not really knowing or understanding, you're just trying to figure out what in the world is happening. 

Nick: 6:14

Yeah, yes, and I think you know the irregular periods can wreck kind of havoc on your life, because you're trying to do your daily life and you don't always know what's coming and how to prepare and things. You know you may start a menstrual cycle out of the blue, or it may get so heavy you can't really feel like you can do something that day or what have you. It can really vary from woman to woman, from month to month, from week to week even, and you may go several months with no menstrual cycle and then boom, you thought you were done and you're not, and that's very common. 

Cindy: 6:58

You're smiling because you have no idea what it's like. Well, I'm watching Nick's face and I'm like, don't smile. 

Amy: 7:08

Okay, no one's smiling. 

Cindy: 7:09

I'm kidding. 

Nick: 7:10

Well, you know what? That's a good point, though, Amy, because you know, he doesn't have a uterus, he has no ratapurated and this is all your couples listening that if we don't talk together about what's happening with our bodies, then the changes that we're experiencing, how do we come alongside one another in support and you know, affirmation and help. Communication is. If you haven't started communicating and you're listening, now is the time and it will serve you moving forward. 

Amy: 7:42

And, as you know, we as men, we just want to be told, like, just tell us, like right, we don't want to try to figure out what's going on. So I think, like you said, having that communication is so key because, as a husband, you're like what's wrong? What did I do? What you know? Why are you experiencing this? Like we just want to be there to help. But a lot of times we have no clue what's going on. But it really is just that simple. We, as men, are typically simple people Just communicate with us, just tell us and how we can help. 

Cindy: 8:13

And that's what I love talking about this and talking about libido and what women go through. I think there's a compassion that needs to be had for something that you have never experienced and that, like we're saying, that comes with really good communication. But women have the responsibilities to open up and say this is how I'm feeling, this is what I'm going through. Please could be compassionate with me. And the men need to step back and be like I've never been through that. I'm trying my hardest, but thanks for being open with me, you know so. 

Nick: 8:43

Oh, yes, and let's get tangible. Let's get tangible with this. So let's talk about the abnormal periods, for example. I just think couples should have a conversation and if you're going through this stage and this whole menopause transition and you don't know, month to month, what's going to happen, and say your, your spouse wants to travel, right, I mean you have to communicate. Listen, I'm in the stage I don't know if I'm going to be like having a heavy period, if I'm not going to have a period, if I'm going to have four periods, this is a really hard time for me to go such and so or this place, and and feel like I have what I need and I, I can, you know, participate in what we plan. Sometimes that even is like a backtrack conversation to be having, so that it's not, I don't really feel like going anywhere, right, it's different. Then I would really like to go and do this, but this is what's giving me anxiety or this is what's holding me back from making those choices. So that's just. You know, you, sometimes I think we, we think, just don't go into a lot of detail, but we need enough detail that people understand how our feeling and what we're truly dealing with Right. Let's talk about hot flashes, you know, shall we? So when your estrogen starts dropping, you have to remember estrogen plays a role in your, in your temperature regulation, in your brain, right, and people laugh and make fun and you know she wants to take her clothes off and she's fanning herself and but listen, what's happening is your brain is saying overheat, overheat, you're too cold, overheat, and it overcompensates when you don't have the amount of estrogen. You need to regulate that, right? Does that make sense? 

Amy: 10:32

Yeah, absolutely. 

Nick: 10:33

And so it's hypersensitive and and you, you're trying to deal with your brain triggering this hypersensitivity to temperature. That's a bit out of your control. Couple things to do for and it is. It can be one. It's one of the biggest symptoms women complain about outside of the period irregularities. Yeah, because it messes with your life. I mean, I remember just to give you a tangible. I'm a nurse, right, so I'd be changing someone's you know poor dressing or pick line like an IV and plant addressing on them. Okay, never mind, you don't have to know. Um and I, you know I'm, I'm gloved, masked, the whole bit and you start having this hot flash and you're you break out in a sweat. I mean your whole, your heart rate goes up, your whole body is flushed and I'm looking at the patient going. I want to apologize. I'm having a flush of heat right now and I'm just going to have to take a couple of deep breaths. You know, sweat is dripping down by your mask. I'm getting really practical here, but this is how it feels and you're trying to live your daily life. And you're wondering what in the world is going on. Like what's causing? 

Cindy: 11:48

this. How long is this going to last? 

Nick: 11:51

Yeah and yes, and I think what I always want to tell women is that one of some of the best tools is to tell your mind Okay, this is not gonna last forever. I can breathe through this. This feels terrible and I feel really hot and I'm gonna take my sweater off and I'm going to fan myself and it is going to pass. It is going to pass and then it will pass, but it is disruptive. It is disruptive, so and that goes along with night sweats too, which is another big complaint have you heard that one? Yeah, we have oh just, I'm not talking like. You sweat in the night and it's a hot night you soak the bed. You're sweating, you're soaking the bed. You have to change the sheets. It's that much for somebody. 

Cindy: 12:44

That is like when you're really sick with a horrible fever, exactly Ever. Sometimes you're freezing, but yeah. 

Nick: 12:50

You know your hair's wet. I mean, it is a lot. So what results in that? Really poor sleep, really disrupted sleep, and this is these things compound each other. 

Amy: 13:07

I love how to bring that up, how it does compound each other, Cause that I mean then if you're not getting enough sleep, you're struggling and others not feeling good. I mean it just, yeah, just keeps compounding. 

Cindy: 13:17

So our biggest question we get from our audience, followers, messages, emails is menopause has hit our relationship now and the libido is gone right, and yeah, so let's talk about how it affects a libido, but when you're already bringing up these things like hot flashes and not feeling good and not sleeping good, that all affects your libido. 

Nick: 13:41

All of those things affect your libido. You are right on, you are, and that's why I bring them up first. 

Cindy: 13:46

Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, we're women Like all those. There's so many things that affect our libido, so let's jump into that, because that's why women are here is how do I fix this? What are the things I can do? What natural things can I do? And the husbands are like help help fix my sexual intimacy, right. 

Nick: 14:03

So yeah, yes, and I think that's an important point. Some people do complain of decreased libido, but I have a lot to say on that. But let's focus on the truth of when you're not sleeping, when you're having hot flashes, when you're having irregular bleeds all over the place, that is not conducive to desire. Those things decrease desire. Lack of sleep alone decreases desire. Remember those of you who've had children and gone through postpartum and remember that whole. You know all that's the same kind of thing you're experiencing here, with lack of sleep and that affects desire 100%. Also, just the navigation of the unknown and the anxiety that can bring. For a lot of women, anxiety decreases desire. And when you're not sleeping and you're bleeding irregularly and you're, you know, feeling like you have brain fog, you wanna try to think straight, but you're tired and you're having hot flashes, you know, six times a day and sweating all night, your desire just goes in the toilet due to that right. As well, as you have fluctuating hormones that affect you know how you feel. This all comes into play and I think what people forget is that this stage of life, usually for women, I mean, think about the stage of life this is, this is 40s into your 50s. What are we doing in that stage? Many are parenting, many are caring for aging parents, many are in a profession and at a different stage in their profession. So much is going on in your life that is energy draining. And remember our desire comes from the same energy tank as everything else. It doesn't get its own separate little tank right. It's all from the same tank. So when your energy and your whole level of energy is down, whether it's from stress or all these symptoms or what you're doing in your life that brings your desire down, because it's all from the same tank. 

Cindy: 16:29

And if you're already down, which a lot of women are already down and then you add this on top, you're pretty much on empty. 

Nick: 16:37

You're on empty. 

Amy: 16:37

Yeah, I love that you're kind of getting this deep and talking about all these things, because from what I've seen, no one else really does. They say here's what menopause is, here's the causes and basically good luck to you. But you're talking about just so many things that I think many of our audience can relate to, like, yeah, what's she saying is exactly spot on and these are causing my feelings. These are things that I'm going through in my life and I just love how you're presenting everything. I think it's in such a way and in depth that I've never really heard before. 

Cindy: 17:15

So let's talk about this tank. I mean, we've already got women like here. I am in the 40s, I haven't hit premenopause, but I'm in that time of life where teens and work and all those crazy things. I already feel like my libido is down here right. To even think about adding that on top of already my stage of life is like ah right. 

Amy: 17:36

And to have your libido down with this is, I mean, that's crazy. 

Cindy: 17:41

I mean, this is like health issues. So you're joking. No, what I? 

Amy: 17:45

was saying I was making a joke To have your libido down with a guy like this. 

Cindy: 17:50

Oh, he is pretty awesome. He is making a personal. 

Amy: 17:53

I'm making a joke. 

Cindy: 17:55

Funny If you're on a zero tank and you're feeling empty as a woman and your husband's feeling that in your marriage, let's talk about how to fill that back up, because all I hear is my wife is too tired, my wife doesn't feel good, my wife's PMSing, my wife has a headache, and so I've done my own research on menopause because I'm right before that stage and the dryness and the pain that it causes and the tightness and all those things that menopause can actually do to your body. There has to be a way to keep healthy sexual intimacy during this time of life right. And a lot of people in this time of life their kids have moved out. They're now empty nesters, they now have more time together. Like it should be an amazing time right. Like how can we get it to still be amazing? 

Nick: 18:46

Well, and you brought up, you know the other symptoms that we haven't got to hit yet, which are so important to talk about, which is vaginal dryness, vaginal irritation, pain with intercourse, and those are big desire deterrents, right? If sex is painful, who wants to sign up for that? No one, no one, no one. If your vagina is dry and your tissues are dry and you're uncomfortable and it's itching and burning, who wants to sign up to be touched? No one Right. So those symptoms that go along with this transition are it is under cared for in women in healthcare. This is just don't get okay. Let me just take a breath. There are things that help and women are not being educated and told about their options. So there are things for vaginal dryness, there are vaginal lubricants, there are estrogen inserts there you know I'm not going to get into all the medical of course but and pain with sex when estrogen drops. Right, it's not just estrogen too. Your testosterone is fluctuating, your progesterone, I mean everything's fluctuating. You are not going to lubricate for sex the way you normally have or if that was already sort of, you weren't really a big lubricator anyway a lot of your own natural lubrication, no matter what. In this stage, lube is your friend, Lube for sex. I'm not talking about a vaginal moisturizer. I'm not talking about lubricant, sexual lubricant. Okay, Some people have never used a lubricant in their life until they get to this stage. This is very common. Why, I don't know, but I am the lube fairy, like a hundred percent. 

Amy: 20:40

Amy throws up the stop sign and says do you have the lube? Yes, I do. 

Cindy: 20:45

Before we even start. I'm like it makes it better. 

Nick: 20:48

Makes it better, slicker, lasts longer, no micro tears. This stage is a time where your lubrication is going to decrease. It may be non-existent. You may feel desire for sex or intimacy, and yet your body will not lubricate. Even though your mind is saying yes, yes, yes, your body is like you can't do it. And then having sex with dry tissues is very painful. And if women don't feel like they can bring lube into the conversation, there are a lot of partners out there that are against bringing anything in the bedroom. Well, if that's you and you're listening, I just want to encourage you to be open-minded about what is going to allow you to have comfortable, pain-free sex. 

Amy: 21:48

Yeah, I want to make a comment too, real quick. I think when people think about sex, they automatically think intercourse and some of the most enjoyable sexual intimacy for Amy and I have been on the outside Right, so I want people to know like you can't just just even if you aren't having an intercourse, it doesn't mean that it stops, like you can't do anything, like some of the most amazing and enjoyable times of being together having included intercourse. 

Cindy: 22:16

Well, I'm sure we're going to jump into the clitoris, of course, because that's going to be well. It's the key to unlocking female pleasure, as you always say. But it's probably the key even times a thousand during the stage of life. And for us I'm like it's already the key to me, but some people don't know that there's a lot of people that I don't like to have sex with my husband because it hurts and intercourse sucks and blah, blah, blah and I'm like, well then, go on the outside, it's good. It's still good for both of you. So I know we'll get into that. 

Nick: 22:41

Well, let's get into it, let's not even wait because I know we've talked about this before on your podcast but the clitoris is not getting great stimulation during intercourse or penetration. So the majority of women over 80%, probably more, will not orgasm with penetration alone. There needs to be clitoral stimulation paired along with it to allow for the kind of stimulation that a woman needs to, you know, get her ease and then get her browsed enough to reach orgasm Period. So I'm with you on opening the box of what sex looks like. We are so narrow minded about sex looking one way and being one way. It's such a disservice to ourselves and to our relationships. As we age and you know I'm a way ahead of you two so as we age, I just keep telling people our bodies are going to shift and change and erections also shift and change. So this we're talking all about women, but men are changing too. I mean, they get in that post 50 stage and a lot of men start to really experience changes in their erections and they think I have, you know, sexual dysfunction. Well, in a lot of cases they don't have sexual dysfunction, they're just dissatisfied with their erections. So it's dissatisfaction versus dysfunction. This is a big topic, right? Penises don't stay hard as long they don't get as hard, they can't last as long. All of these things can go into this normal aging stage, but we don't talk about that either, and so if we're only focused on intercourse and penises are changing and vaginas are changing, where does that leave us into the long term? 

Amy: 24:36

Yeah, yep. 

Nick: 24:38

Sex is so much more than that, so much more. 

Amy: 24:41

Totally agree, and we've found that in our marriage, like we're just like man. It's so much more than that. It's not black night, yeah, but I think you're right. I think when most people think about sex, it has to be just this way, right. And that's sad. It needs to be opened up. 

Cindy: 24:57

And that's where these conversations need to take place. Can't say you have to talk about these things. 

Nick: 25:03

Yeah, yes, and let me. I'm going to quote Dr Lori Brotto, who is one of the leading researchers on sex research out of Canada. She has a book called Better Sex Through Mindfulness and she says it turns out that whether you believe sex is important or not, and how strongly you hold on to some of the prevailing myths about age and sex, that can predict whether you will develop a sexual concern or not. Wow, research shows that women who believe that age diminishes sexual desire and sexual activity are twice as likely to experience low sexual desire as women who don't hold that belief. What do you believe? What do you believe about sex and aging? Do you think it can be for a lifetime? Do you believe like you're going to get to a certain age and then that's it? It's not going to happen? That is not research based truth. 

Amy: 26:04

Yeah, I love how you hit on. You know just how we perceive or how we mentally think about things, because that is that. I mean. That's another whole topic of just. We've seen people that have gone from absolutely hating sex to changing their mindset and then being the higher desired spouse, right Like just because they've changed their mindset, and I truly believe that's so important. 

Cindy: 26:29

I'm glad I'm talking to the right people, because I always thought it got better with age, so in my mind it's just going to get better right, Like when the kids who have ads going to be like we're going to be able to do in the middle of the day. 

Amy: 26:40

We've practiced more. We've learned more about each other Our relationships more meaningful as we've been married longer, like it just looks better and better, hopefully. 

Nick: 26:51

Well, and the research spells that out, Nick. I mean, the research says the people who describe having extraordinary sex are people over 50, couples over 50. And so it is not all lost. And you brought up the desire, so let's touch on that because this is so important. As we age and get into this older stage, we move more and more into responsive desire. So we I'm sure you've talked on the show about spontaneous desire, wanting sex out of the blue, and then responsive desire, which is things have to be happening and arousal needs to be happening, and then you think, oh, I do like that, let's do more of that. Yeah, the majority of women Well, maybe not the majority, a lot of people have a combination, but a good, a good portion of women experience desire in this way, right? And then, as we age, everyone starts to experience desire more in this, this way, and men will often say I don't, I don't know what's going on with me, I, I don't like, I don't have desire out of the blue anymore. You're normal, you're okay, you're moving into the stage of you know, feeling more responsive desire. Because, as we age, you know, desire isn't always tapping us on the shoulder, going come here there, come here. You know it's. Sometimes we have to create the desire, we have to tap into our appetite for it. Right, this is, this is such good information for people to know as they get into these stages. Yeah, yeah. 

Cindy: 28:34

That's when it becomes so important to be intentional about it in your relationship, because if you're both responsive and no one's actually like initiating like they used to Hmm. 

Nick: 28:45

Hmm, yeah Well, let's talk about practically. Let's talk practically about just a couple tips to if we're going to move into responsive desire, then we want to look for ways to spark arousal, right, because we're looking for that arousal to turn us on to say oh yeah, this is worth doing. Let's do this. Oh, I, I, I'm never sorry when we do this. Let's keep going. So, in this stage in our, in our lives, let's really listen to our bodies and what they're telling us. This is so important at every stage, and especially at this stage, maybe because I'm in it, but listening and paying attention right. Also, exercise and moving our body is so good for us and our mind and our body and sex. After exercise is one of your tips. You exercise even if you walk around the block or you dance to a song in your house or you hula hoop, I don't care what you do. If you get your body moving, your blood starts moving and you you're kind of priming your genitals, right, because arousal is blood flow to the genitals. So exercise sparks blood flow. You get your blood flow going. Don't wait for the shower, don't wait for the get ready. Do it then. 

Cindy: 30:04

Yeah, you're already primed and ready. I love that advice. 

Nick: 30:07

Great advice. The second thing is your hormones are highest in the morning, so testosterone definitely for men higher in the morning, drops throughout the day. 

Amy: 30:18

Is that the same for women too? 

Nick: 30:21

Women's hormones in general were higher after we slept in the morning and then they kind of decreased during the day. So sex before it's in the morning, in the day, not the last thing at night before you go to sleep. Which is hard when you have a hospital of kids 100% so, but it is finding those opportunities where it could happen. So often when I meet with women for consultations they'll say I'll say well, have you ever had like a hot lunch? I mean, have you ever tried to figure out how to meet for hot lunch? They look at me like what? But they're they dread the night because they just want to sleep right. So in both cases trying to find times during the day hours might be a better, even if it's once in a while. It's kind of like a you know booster to your sexual energy together. But the other thing besides lube, which I'm always going to talk about, lube is lube and more lube and use the lube is have sex as your appetizer instead of your dessert. So especially as we age, the more we need our blood flow to go to our digestion. It funnels away from our genitals. So we want to have sex before we have big meals, because then we don't feel as full and right, but also our blood flow is going to where we want it to go. So think about it as appetizer, not dessert. I like that, love it, love it. 

Amy: 31:54

A few practical We'll have to go park in the car before we go to our dinner trip. 

Cindy: 32:01

Oh, it's like okay. 

Amy: 32:02

I'm just teasing. I gotta make jokes. 

Cindy: 32:05

What is your advice to the women who can just find, like I want this episode to be good for husbands and good for wives, so I'm not just saying women throw all the excuses. Well, I'm in menopause, just don't touch me. What advice do you give to women and how important it is to keep the sexual intimacy alive but to still make it amazing for them so it's beneficial for both people, because I don't. This time should be a time where sexual intimacy can get not, not that it's getting worse, but it's getting better. How do we make it better when your body is really struggling, your mind struggling, just all those things are just like, like you're feeling empty. How do you get to that desire back? Like there's things that you can do Okay, the lube and all those things to make it feel better, but how do you get your mindset to want it back? 

Nick: 33:01

The first thing I'll say is communication. I know people think, oh, communication, well, listen, in all areas. But in this area, in this stage with changes, when we communicate how we're feeling and what's happening and we give information to our partners about how we feel, it helps them come alongside us and be in it together. This is the thing. If you're in it for the long term with your spouse, then you're looking for ways to be in it together. I mean, it may be, let's get practical. You may be having such. Your night sweats are so bad you're like, if another human even touches me, I'm gonna scream right. So can you lay naked in bed and hold pinky fingers or touch hands and my hands are out here and just say I love you, I desire you. I am in a constant sweat right now and my body is so overheated that I can only touch your pinky. But do you feel my pinky? I want you to feel connected to me. I want to feel connected to you and maybe, if I get this, whatever you're gonna get on board, whatever you're gonna talk to your healthcare provider about options and possible HRT and hormone replacement therapies or whatever you're going to vaginal moisturizers there are options available. But for the connection piece. This is how we talk to each other. Do you see, I do desire you, I do desire us to be intimate. Can you see what I'm experiencing and why it's so hard for me? But I want you to know in my mind and in my heart I want to stay connected. Let's try to see how I feel tomorrow. And body, body, body. I know that sounds so simple, but it's important. I think the other thing is to educate each other about our bodies. I mean, literally have some quality time session where you say educate me, honey, educate me about your body right now. Where do you feel pleasure at this stage in our lives? Where do you want to be touched? What is saying Touch me, tell me, educate me about your body. I mean, what if we did that? I love that. 

Cindy: 35:32

It's amazing conversations. 

Nick: 35:35

Amazing because we change and shift and we go through seasons. And maybe I loved when you kissed my ear when I was 20, but I'm 50 now. I'm like that doesn't do anything for me. You got to move to my neck or whatever. It is right. Have those kind of sessions where you're exploring each other's bodies and talking about what you enjoy and where you want to be touched. 

Cindy: 35:56

I think what you oh, go ahead. I was just going to say. The first thing you said hits home to so many men, because men have expressed they just want to feel desired Like they. The whole sexual intimacy and the connecting sexually is because they want to feel desired. So, as a woman, you're just like not in the night, not tonight. Don't feel good again when you, when you approach it like this, and I want to connect with you, I want to be into it with you. I'm going through this right now, but I still desire keywords. I still desire you. That's what a man needs. 

Amy: 36:28

Yeah. 

Cindy: 36:28

That's all a man needs. 

Nick: 36:30

And he's we all need that, we all want to be desired. We all need that, I think another thing too in our relationship. 

Amy: 36:38

So Amy has a zero spontaneous desire. It's all responsive, right, and she recognizes that and I do so. For her to get in the mood, you know it takes different things, and so maybe maybe applying the same logic to what we're talking about today with menopause is I, we approach it and I say Amy loves back rubs, right, so I all spend 30 or 45 minutes just giving her an amazing back rub, trying to relax her, get her de-stressed and things like that, and 99.9% of the time that we're talking about, we're talking about that and we're talking about the next thing and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in the mood, I'm not in the mood, I'm not in the mood for a person of the time that puts her in the mood, so where she's like oh, let's I. 

Cindy: 37:23

I want to be intimate with you Now. We both. 

Amy: 37:24

It's because I feel desired, he feels desired because I'm willing and that it's all it takes. It takes feeling. But I think if women can kind of think, okay, I'm not in the mood, I'm not filling it, what other things can we do for each other? And if it gets us in the mood, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't, it's kind of it's, it's it's all that it's. It's not enough. But I think, set a good time, a good time for women to have something that really helps her de-stress or take her mind off things or you know, whatever that is, whether it's a good communication and having that conversation or or a deep you know background or things like that. 

Nick: 37:56

So, yeah, well, and another thing I talk about so often with young moms but it works in every stage is Allowing yourself some transition time, especially for people with responsive desire day of you know, professional or teacher, you know mom or caretaker, whatever all the roles we play, and you're allowing yourself a little time of transition to settle into your body. Okay, here I am. Here I am my own sensual, sexual, normal self. I see myself I'm gonna dry brush my whole body until it's tingly, or I'm gonna rub my scalp for 15 minutes and listen to music, or I'm gonna do a short yoga sequence and just try to get my body to relax and breathe. We don't allow ourselves this, this kind of transition time, and we think we're gonna jump right into intimacy when we're not even connected mind and body and settled into ourselves. This kind of transition time is it can be a huge key to prompting desire, right tuning into our own bodies and desires super important. The other thing I want to add here is that it's pretty clear in the research that women, as they age, tend to really want more variety in their intimacy, much more than men. So this is all at a Lori Brotto's work. I mean, I just heard her. She's just such a great researcher for women and I think if women would give themselves more permission to ask for something different, or variety, or a new position, or a toy or let's let's see if we can put some pillows here or let's how would it be if we went here, did a night out and went to a hope, to whatever? Women tend to really like, some variety to spark their desire, and I just want to encourage women listening to give yourselves permission for that, and a lot of that has to be communicated. 

Amy: 40:08

Right. I love that. I love that model permission for pleasure, like just give yourself permission to do that. I think that's phenomenal. 

Nick: 40:15

Which is your podcast. That is my it is my podcast, because so many, many women have not allowed themselves to have permission for pleasure, and this is some of this is a big missing piece. 

Cindy: 40:31

What a great way to like wrap up this episode too, because, like during menopause or whatever stage you're in, there's still so many ways to find pleasure, and your tips have been amazing. 

Amy: 40:42

Yeah, this has been an incredible episode. So work in our audience, find you, learn more about you and, yeah, reach out to me. 

Nick: 40:51

Well, we you mentioned permission for pleasure. That's my podcast, and most our conversations are surround sexual health in some way, or women, girls, bodies, it's. It's growing and changing as I grow and change. I'd love to have you join me there if you want more education around sexual health. I do have a newsletter and a blog, and you can find everything on my website at CindySharkeycom. I'd love to have you come along for the journey of learning more and giving yourself permission for pleasure. 

Cindy: 41:21

Love it. 

Amy: 41:22

Thank you so much for being on with us today. I think this is a much-needed amazing episode much needed. I loved how you presented everything and I think this is going to be an episode our audience absolutely loves and, more importantly, has good, valuable information that they can apply to find ultimate intimacy in their relationship. So thank you again for being on with us. 

Nick: 41:43

Thanks, for having me out there. 

Amy: 41:45

Until next time. We hope you find ultimate intimacy in your relationship. Okay. 

Cindy: 41:55

That's funny. 

Amy: 42:00

And welcome to episode 137 of the ultimate intimacy podcast, again with your host, nick and Amy, and we again have our wonderful guest with us, cindy Sharkey Again, and today we're discussing or she is discussing, I should say the best techniques to increase her pleasure. So Cindy I, know it's been a while, but welcome again to the podcast. We're excited to have you again. 

Nick: 42:27

Yeah, I'm delighted to be here. Absolutely. Cindy is such a great topic too. 

Cindy: 42:32

Oh, I was just going to say your podcast is permission for pleasure. Which is what we're talking about is women's pleasure and increasing, and every husband's going to want to hear this and every wife is going to be like, yes, right. 

Amy: 42:46

All about me. So, even the playing field, yeah. 

Nick: 42:50

Well, pleasure is so important and sometimes it's left out of the conversation. So sex is meant to be pleasurable, and pleasurable for both partners, and often what we find is that women aren't experiencing a lot of pleasure in. That often comes down to not having knowledge about the clitoris. 

Cindy: 43:12

Or they or mindset. They think that it's not supposed to be pleasurable for them, like, how sad is that? 

Nick: 43:18

Very sad Both of us. 

Amy: 43:20

Yeah, a lot of women feel like, oh, it's just pleasurable for him and I'm just, I'm just here, and that shouldn't be that way at all. 

Cindy: 43:26

Like, who's going to want to make love if it's not good for them too? Right, like it's supposed to be uniting and amazing. 

Amy: 43:31

Making love. 

Nick: 43:33

Think about. Think about that in terms of desire. It's hard to have desire or motivation to have sex and intimacy with someone if it's not pleasurable, if it's only for the other, right. But sex and pleasure is for everyone. It is for women. They're designed with a pleasure center, the clitoris, and that's its main function is pleasure. So, if you missed the first episode I was on quite some time ago. We talked all about the clitoris and where it is and how to find yours. I encourage you to go back and listen or come on over to my platform, where I talk about it every day, right? Because if you have information and education, understand the whole clitoris. It's a whole network, right? It is not just the love button on the outside, it is all inside too. It's so much a wrecked out tissue for pleasure, available to be aroused and stimulated and bring delight, right? Yes, and so I really wanted to share some pleasure techniques that have been studied and then given you know, language has been given to it so that we can help women especially, who want to have more pleasure with intercourse or penetration. I get this question every week how can I orgasm with intercourse? How can I like intercourse more? I want to have intercourse, but it's not really pleasurable for me. I don't get that much out of it. Well, the truth is, you're normal if you're feeling that way, because not even 80% I would say 80% or to 90% of women do not orgasm with intercourse alone. Did you hear me? 

Amy: 45:30

Yep. 

Nick: 45:31

Okay. So if you're not orgasming with intercourse alone, you're in the huge majority. 

Cindy: 45:38

So, whatever you mean, which is me, I'm in, that I'm in that so many, most women are. 

Nick: 45:45

And yet what we see in the movies and you know here, and books and just media, it's so pervasive that you know a woman just goes in a course it's the best thing ever. She has a huge orgasm. Well, that's not even reality. That's just show business, that is just media and it's not the truth. So if we think about the clitoris and how it's organized under the surface, as well as the part you can see on the outside, because it has legs and bulbs all inside, come over to my platform and look at my. I wish I could show you my little model and everything, but I know we're not. You know we don't do video. So learn about the clitoris and the whole anatomy of it so that you can access it all for pleasure. 

Cindy: 46:33

Both of you. The husband needs to learn about it. The wife needs to learn about it for sure, ding, ding, ding it was like changing when we took the time to learn about it and our entire sexual intimacy changed. 

Amy: 46:46

Well, like Amy said, you know, for her to say, hey, not there here, you know, right, like, guide me in the right direction, tell me where to go. 

Nick: 46:54

Yep, love that, love that you brought that up, because communication is the key here. It is. This is where I like to be touched, right there. 

Amy: 47:03

Yep. 

Nick: 47:04

Harder, faster, softer, more, more vibration, more movement, less over to the right, over to the left. Use your words right. Use your words and educate your partner about your body. 

Amy: 47:19

Because I feel like I'm pretty knowledgeable and I still get into where she's like nope, over here more I'm like oh, I thought I had it. This has been like a thousand times. 

Nick: 47:34

The thing is too, we shift and change, Not so much you know huge shift in our anatomy, but what we like and don't like, or how we like, it changes and shifts a ton for women and communicating that huge. Absolutely Love that, so let's get in, let's get into these four techniques that women use, and I love giving this language to women so that, if they're partnered, they can say, like I really I heard I listened to this podcast, you know, and they were talking about these four techniques and I'd love to try one. What do you think about this? I'm trying to frame out how you could, how you could bring this up if you're listening alone and not partnered together. So the first one is pairing, which is basically you are including clitoral stimulation with penetration. You may be doing this already If you normally put your fingers down and touch your clitoris, or your partner does at the same time, or you're used to using a vibrator of some kind and having access right to the glands clitoris that you can touch on the outside. Over 70% of women use this technique right of including some kind of stimulation to the glands clitoris the head of the clitoris on the outside during penetration. That makes sense. 

Cindy: 49:02

Totally recommend. 

Nick: 49:06

And either, if you want to touch yourself, you can. If you want to direct your partner's fingers to the place where you want it, you know, show each other, talk about it, talk, talk, talk, talk and figure out how. What position gives you access to that, being able to do that. If you're open to bringing in a small toy or couples vibrator, people have. There's this great options out now. 

Amy: 49:33

That was a game changer for us. 

Nick: 49:35

Pardon me. That was a game changer for us. 

Amy: 49:38

Absolutely. We were very against it, or hesitant, I guess, for quite a while, and we had no idea what we were missing and how much it improved our intimacy. 

Nick: 49:50

I love hearing you say that, because there is such a stigma against toys or vibrators and yet what we know is if a couple agrees together and they want to try it together and everybody can sense that we're going to add in an addition. It's not a substitution for a partner, it's an addition. It's basically signing you up for the kind of stimulation your clitoris and bull the like. 

Cindy: 50:18

It's just going to say the best thing to incorporate it for both people is what we sell in our shop is our rings, because it's like you said, it doesn't take away from anybody, it's just adding to. And it's so helpful because you can still have intercourse, still get the clitoris touch at the same time Amazing. 

Nick: 50:37

Yeah, love it. Yeah, so pairing makes sense. It makes sense, right? So we're thinking our key to pleasure is our clitoris. So we're going to get access and stimulation to our clitoris at the same time as we're having penetration, right? Yeah, okay. The next one is shallowing. Shallowing like 84% of women report using shallowing, this technique, and when I talk about percentages and the research, this is all out of OMYG OMG yes, I always say it the wrong way, omg, yes which is it's a research company and a pleasure platform for women, and they did a huge study. I think it was over 3000 women and this is where this language is coming from. It's in a published paper. It's just really good. It's really good for women to say words that make sense with a partner or to themselves, to be able to try something different, right? So that's how this came about. Shallowing, this is this touch that just stays on the outside, so penetration doesn't go all the way in. It's staying on the outside, and some people have a lot of sensitivity in that perineum area, the tissue between the vagina and the rectum that's called your perineum. It has a lot of nerve, sensitive spots and a lot of women like that shallow little thrusts on the outside and just in the entrance and not going deeper. You definitely need adequate lubrication for this. So good arousal meaning you're warmed up. You've been doing things that get your body aroused and ready and this tissue is really thin there, so you need lubrication. I'm talking about good lube for sex. Big fan of lube. 

Amy: 52:32

We are as well Mandatory. 

Nick: 52:35

You don't want to have too much friction, but you want the stimulation, so does shallowing make sense? 

Amy: 52:40

Mm-hmm, Absolutely yeah. 

Nick: 52:43

Okay. The next one is rocking, rocking. 76% of women say oh, I and you may be listening going oh, I do that. Wow, rocking. Okay, baby, let's rock. I mean, you know, use the language right Rocking is penetration that stays all the way inside and there's not thrusting, so. So follow along with me here. If the penetration is all the way inside and a woman is rocking her pelvis, I'm rocking back and forth Right, let me demo for you Just give me a clean demo. Right If you're rocking back and forth with penetration that stays all the way inside. That is, allowing your glands, clitoris to have contact with your partner's pelvis and pubic bone. Right, so you're staying connected tight and that rocking is providing you the stimulation that you need to clitoris. A lot of people call this grinding, where you feel like you're grinding, that kind of motion. I don't care what you call it Try positions which would allow you to do that. Right, like perhaps a chair position, right when you're sitting. A woman would be sitting on her spouse's lap and it allows you to do that grinding or rocking position, whether you're front-facing or forward-facing or back-facing. Just an idea. So pick positions that you can try that in and if your partner needs a little reminder not to thrust right Ha-ha, you can wrap your legs around them. You can just whisper in their ear keep still, let me move, I'm moving, I'm moving now. 

Amy: 54:30

Let me take that. 

Nick: 54:32

Whatever you need to do, because if you're not used to trying this, the habit of thrusting is there. What do you think about that? I'm thinking people-. 

Cindy: 54:43

That was a great one and there are certain positions that work really well with that 100 percent Absolutely. 

Nick: 54:48

Yes. 

Cindy: 54:50

When the pelvic bone is actually pressing hard enough, it actually works. 

Nick: 54:55

There you go. 

Cindy: 54:56

That has to happen for most women to have an orgasm with penetration. 

Amy: 55:01

You're talking to people that had to test every position On the app. 

Nick: 55:07

There you go, hey, and you might combine this with your apps on the-. You know your positions on the app. The great thing, though, too, is that people are organized. Their genitals are organized just exactly their way. We're not all the same. Yeah, what works for one person may not work for another person. For one person they can really get the stimulation they need from a rear entry position. Another person is like that, just doesn't get where I need it to go. 

Amy: 55:42

Oh true, everyone's different. Yeah, everyone's different. 

Nick: 55:46

Before we go to the last one, we change. What we liked or what was really hitting our spots 10 years ago may change and be different now. Right, this is an ongoing conversation. This is a conversation that's ongoing that we revisit. 

Amy: 56:04

That's why we tell people always try different things. Right, try different things. Find out what works for you, because it might not work for someone else. 

Cindy: 56:12

But you first have to give yourself permission for pleasure. 

Nick: 56:15

There you go, Give yourself permission for pleasure and give yourself permission to give it a go and be laughing your head off saying okay wow, that was not what I expected. And have a good time. Sex is your playground I mean, it's your adult playground. So, or maybe you say, okay, wow, I've just dissolved into giggles now, so let's just, let's do something different and revisit this another time, right? Or maybe you find it's really hot and it's going to be one of your go to thing Wow, can we do that again and when? Right, just experiment, and this is all good information. If something doesn't work, well, then that's good information too. Hey, hey, hey, hey, that's not comfortable. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, I figured out. No, I need to say no right now. Well, that's not okay for me. That's not comfortable 100% good education to know about you, your body, right. 

Amy: 57:14

For sure. 

Nick: 57:16

So the last one is angling. Angling 88% of women reported using angling, and some of you, I'm sure, already do you just don't call it that and this is just naturally trying to rotate your hips in a way that provide paring almost, or stimulation to the clitoris, or to the inner clitoris, the bulbs and the legs inside. Angling can sometimes get those erectile tissues the stimulation that they like and need to be aroused. So you can do this with pillows. A lot of women really enjoy having their whole pelvis and hips lifted. It doesn't. It could be a couple of firm pillows, it could be a sex pillow that's more like a wedge. But it doesn't have to be complicated. Just try what's in your home first and see if it works. If that doesn't work, then try another option in your home. You know, but raising your hips and giving you a little height sometimes puts the penetration where is the most pleasurable for you. If you've never tried pillows in your home, okay, let's sign up for that first. Just give it a go and see what you use. 

Amy: 58:33

Probably the area we're least experienced in. 

Cindy: 58:35

Yeah that's that Nick's mind's right now is like oh, we got stuff to do at home. 

Nick: 58:41

Well, I just did an episode on positions with props to try to remind people that you know, use the chairs in your house. You use the pillows in your house. People call this lifted missionary. If a woman's on her back and using pillows to lift, I just call it pillow lift. You know, I don't know, it doesn't have to be complicated, but try some different positions and use things that are around you to give yourself some variety. People always say spice things up. I don't. I don't love that Like. We're looking for variety, because variety really sparks erotic energy and we want to be having that energy in our relationship and intimacy. 

Amy: 59:25

For sure. 

Cindy: 59:26

I think we've talked about this before, but as humans, we get bored. We get bored with our houses, we get bored with our cars, we buy new clothes, we buy new stuff. Right, because we get bored, like it's important to realize. As humans, we're wired to need variety in lots of different ways and so when, when marriage seems dull or getting boring, like, yes, we need variety in our date nights, in our bedroom, out of the bedroom, just in life in general. So I think it's really awesome that you brought that up right, yeah. I think, so and those people who are against trying these things, like you're missing out, like we're wired to need that, you know oh yes, and that is that can look a lot of different ways. 

Nick: 1:00:06

I mean, you're, if you're putting sex in a box and you we've talked about this before you got you all and me If you're putting it in a box and you're not, you're not tapping into all that can be explored, whether that's just sleeping naked together once in a while or taking a shower together. That doesn't lead to intercourse or anything else, it's just touching each other's bodies with water and suds, and all of these things spark erotic energy between the two of you, and those things fuel intimacy. It's like be curious, absolutely Use your curiosity and think about what would be different and fun and let it look a million different ways. 

Amy: 1:00:50

Well, I thought we were kind of experts, but apparently there's a lot of things we still need to learn and do. So we appreciate you bringing those up because I'm like, oh, I've tried that, so that could be, it could be amazing. So tonight, tonight it's Angeline. 

Nick: 1:01:04

Tomorrow we're going to try Rocking. The next day we're going to try to meet for lunch and try the shower Lunch and try the shallow. We know I'm just saying always use the pairing and in any other ways, use this language together. If you're listening, use this language. If it's an easy way to open the conversation with your spouse and to say hey, I heard about this, the nurse. This nurse was talking about these ways we could make things more pleasurable for me, and I'm really interested in that. I think that would be really fun and exciting. 

Amy: 1:01:35

Well, who doesn't? 

Nick: 1:01:36

want to sign up for that. 

Amy: 1:01:38

Yeah, Not just nurse sex expert. 

Cindy: 1:01:43

Well, husband wouldn't want their wife to come say that to him too. Like I want to want it more. I want to find more pleasure in it. Help me get there. 

Amy: 1:01:51

Let's learn together. 

Cindy: 1:01:52

That's what every husband wants, you know. 

Amy: 1:01:55

Yeah, let's learn this together and figure it out. 

Nick: 1:01:57

Yeah. 

Amy: 1:01:58

And the sky's the limit, as long as it's pleasurable for both and both consent. 

Nick: 1:02:04

There's so much to explore. Get curious and explore. 

Cindy: 1:02:07

And I loved what you said about the bedroom is our adult playground, like, go have fun, go be intimate and enjoy each other's bodies and the pleasure that you can have. It's just so important. So many couples are missing this. We just want to, like you know, scream it from the roof Like it's supposed to be awesome. 

Amy: 1:02:26

Yeah, yes, yes. 

Nick: 1:02:27

And it doesn't have to be serious all the time. Oh, Sex does not have to be serious all the time. Hopefully, like you're laughing your heads off together once in a while, you know you're trying something new and going wow, that is like. I know I cannot. 

Cindy: 1:02:41

You can't even get in that position. Never again, never again, never again. There's some decisions that we have in our stuff that I was like what is I'm like? 

Amy: 1:02:49

how does this work? 

Cindy: 1:02:50

What? I'm not an acrobat. What? 

Nick: 1:02:53

It doesn't. You know, it doesn't need to be just so serious. All the time, have a good time together and keep communicating, keep communicating and keep the communication ongoing. 

Amy: 1:03:07

Talk. 

Cindy: 1:03:08

Talk, talk some more. 

Amy: 1:03:09

That's right. Well, we can't thank you enough for being on with us and sharing these things with our audience. I know for even Amy and I there are things like oh yeah, we need to try this. 

Cindy: 1:03:20

I have a seven day challenge again, just from the stuff we learned for you today. 

Nick: 1:03:24

Wonderful, yes, and if people want to learn more, I'd love to have them join me over at Permission for Pleasure, my podcast, or they can sign up for my newsletter it's education once a month and or my blog. I just really encourage people to open the doors to learning something new, getting curious and having conversations in their own homes. 

Cindy: 1:03:49

Yeah, love it. Her podcast is Permission for Pleasure. 

Nick: 1:03:54

Love it. Yeah, you can find everything on my website at CindySharkeycom. 

Cindy: 1:03:58

Perfect. 

Amy: 1:03:59

All right, go check her out. Well, thank you so much. We appreciate your time being here with us again today, and to all of you out there, we hope you find ultimate intimacy in your relationship Wonderful. That was perfect.