210. There Is Hope In Recovering From Porn Part 1. The Amazing Story Of Jason

In episode 203 - Why Keeping Porn Out Of Your Marriage Matters, we talked about the impact porn has on marriages, shared some important statistics and ways to keep it out of your life. We also discussed why you should keep porn out of your marriage at all costs.

In this episode, Nick has the pleasure of interviewing Jason, a good Christian husband and family man who started looking at porn at an early age, and eventually became so addicted to it, he lost his job, and even tried taking his own life. But God had different plans for him as you will hear in this incredible story he shares.

Jason opens up and shares his AMAZING journey, experience and the things he has done in his life to try to overcome this addiction. This episode will provide HOPE to those who may be struggling with porn in their life.

This is one of the most inspiring episodes we have ever done and one you should absolutely listen to regardless of your experience with porn. Coming up in the episode following this one, we interview Jason's wife and get her experience and thoughts so check that one out as well.

If you haven't already, go check out the Ultimate Intimacy App in the app stores, or at ultimateintimacy.com to find "Ultimate Intimacy" in your marriage. It's FREE to download and so much fun! Find out why over 650,000 couples have downloaded the app and give it such high ratings and reviews!

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If you have any feedback, comments or topics you would like to hear on future episodes, reach out to us at amy@ultimateintimacy.com and let us know! We greatly appreciate your feedback and please leave us a review.

Transcript

HOST: 0:00

You are listening to the Ultimate Intimacy Podcast, where we discuss how to find ultimate intimacy in your relationship. We believe that, no matter how many years you've been married, you can achieve passion, romance, happiness and ultimate intimacy at any stage of your life. Join us as we talk to not only marriage experts, but couples just like yourself and people who are just flat out fun. The Ultimate Intimacy Podcast is for couples who have a good relationship but want to make it even better.

HOST: 0:59

And I really believe it's going to have a profound impact for a lot of you listening, and so we really appreciate you being here with us today. Today's episode is kind of an extension of one we did several ago on pornography, and again, I really think this is going to be a really profound episode today and we want you to know. In this episode there is hope, and so today's episode is the amazing story of overcoming pornography and finding that hope with Jason. So, jason, thank you so much for being on the podcast with us. We can't begin to thank you enough. We look forward to visiting with you today, and welcome to the podcast.

Jason: 1:44

Well, thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity and look forward to talking with you.

HOST: 1:51

Well, so let's just jump right in. You have an amazing experience, like I said, that when we kind of got bits and pieces of it, we felt like this is something that needed to be shared with part of the world. I think, just jumping in, let's kind of start from the beginning and with your story, because I think so much of that starts with some decisions that maybe were made but you want to share with us kind of how it started or what maybe I guess started everything on that road with pornography.

Jason: 2:35

Sure. So I don't recall a whole lot of the details. What I do know is that I wasn't really spiritually or mentally prepared as a child to resist the temptation that was coming my way, as I think I was fourth or fifth grade when I was first confronted with pornography. To start out with, I want to emphasize that I have tremendous respect for my parents. None of this is to reflect poorly on them.

Jason: 3:19

They did everything they could to encourage me to have consistent time reading God's word and to have a strong walk with God, but for whatever reason, I didn't follow through with that and also, I think, due to the sexual revolution of the 60s, my parents' generation. They would explain things like differences in sexes to their kids. They would explain, you know, babies come from mommy's belly and stuff like that, but they wouldn't get into details about the topic of sex and the beauty of it within the context of biblical marriage and the the dangers associated with pornography. So and you know, later on it is a teenager they might have a Short 20 minute talk, you know, so to speak, with their kids and it would be always Super awkward and you know all of that. But you know we're really wasn't talked about so as a result, both spiritually and mentally.

Jason: 4:50

I wasn't prepared and and certainly there weren't any tools available for parents, like there are today, for for talking about all of these things. So See, I just I wasn't prepared, I was very vulnerable and Very easily fell For the temptation when it, when that onslaught came. So, yeah, that that's really how it, how it started.

HOST: 5:29

I loved what you said and I think you're exactly right. I grew up the same way where sex was never talked about. I've thrown out in previous episodes that our honeymoon night was was laughable and I literally just was really never taught anything, and so I think what you pointed out is is very important, because I think when we're not, when it's not openly talked about and that's one of they need to my mission is obviously to talk about these things right with with Christian couples, and Because when it's not talked about, sometimes it's like okay, where do I go look to find out information or to understand things better, and I think that's a natural thing to want to do.

Jason: 6:06

But yeah, yeah, yeah and so yeah. I think it's extremely important for parents to have these conversations with their kids and not just once yeah, have it be an ongoing conversation where you talk about, you know, At an age appropriate level, from the time they are Little babies To teenagers love it.

HOST: 6:41

Totally, totally agree. Have that open conversation so that they don't your kids don't need to go somewhere else to find out that information.

Jason: 6:49

Right.

HOST: 6:50

Yeah, yeah, exactly so. So about fifth grade, you were introduced to it. Where did it kind of go from there?

Jason: 6:58

So I think, well, from the very beginning I was, I always felt guilty about it, and that's one of the reasons that, although I doubted my salvation later on, I think I genuinely believe that I was saved at the age of five, when I asked my dad some questions on the way home from church, and he led me to the Lord, and I'm quite confident that's when I was saved. Of course, persistent sin is always going to cause someone to doubt their salvation, sure, but the fact that I was always feeling very guilty about it Makes me think that it was. It was at that, at a young age, that I was saved, and, and but I think really in junior high, early junior high was when I started to realize that. You know, I knew I was guilty about that, I felt guilty about this, I wanted to stop, but I started realizing that Whenever I tried to stop, it was within a few days, or maybe a week, that I was right back.

Jason: 8:23

I got it again, yeah, and so, yeah, that's when I started realizing that this was an addiction and I wasn't Able to escape it as easily as I would like.

HOST: 8:42

Yeah, yeah, wow. So moving forward a little bit, obviously, as you started getting older and you know, got married and had a family, work, things like that, it like did you see this start impacting your, your family life, your, your work life, what? What kind of in ways did you feel like this started to impact your life?

Jason: 9:10

Yeah, I think it was After I got married that I really started to notice the negative impacts in college. Halfway through college I had Found ways to Limit the temptation and be able to have consistent victory the last couple years of college. But after we got engaged and then subsequently married, I discovered the things I had been doing were Were not enough to avoid the temptation. And falling to this temptation at that point and you know, which is kind of ironic, because a lot of people struggling with this before they get married they think that the solution is marriage, and and and. And I If that's what you think I've heard it said before the marriage is. Our expectations in marriage are kind of like taking a dog situation and then after we get married, we find out that there's two ticks and no dog.

Jason: 10:35

So you know, there's nothing there to satisfy you or at least not enough, yeah and so. So, yeah, the in. So I did fall to temptation, and it was even further exacerbated by the fact that Now I'm in a relationship with this other person and I'm telling her things, and those things are no longer true. I'm telling her that she's the only one.

HOST: 11:12

Mm-hmm but.

Jason: 11:13

I love her and no one else.

Jason: 11:16

And that's not true because I'm going to other women to try to find satisfaction and so, on top of the sin of unfaithfulness, it was piled onto that the sin of just outright lies and so so, so that that was in addition to that. I was also lying to myself that I could keep the sin that I was giving myself over to From affecting my relationships. So I was lying to my wife that she's the only one I was lying to myself that I can keep these two separate lives distinct and separate. And. But the reality is that there were effects, and obviously so, despite my best efforts, my wife did know she could tell that something thing wasn't right. And of course, this is where she would say that she would make excuses for informing and say you know, no, he's not doing that. Or you know he, you know, was on the computer and shot it real fast. But you know, there's reasons, you know Stuff like that. So there were those effects on her.

Jason: 13:02

I Also began noticing that I would, I was having trouble climaxing during intercourse. So you know some some may chalk it up they're just a Lack of Stimulation or you know something like that. I don't know, but is it? The fact is, I was finding satisfaction elsewhere, and so when it came to Trying to make love to my wife I was Failing, I was falling short, and and you know there were multiple things leading up to that, before that that were Demonstrating that, but with a one clear and obvious signal is the fact that I was not able to climax. So then, further, I ended up being fired from my job because I was making multiple mistakes and in what I was doing and I was not productive, and so so I got, I was fired and do you feel like, when you say you weren't productive, do you feel like that's because your mind was so focused on the, the pornography I mean?

HOST: 14:41

did that kind of consume you? Was it just kind of overtaking your life?

Jason: 14:46

Absolutely.

HOST: 14:47

Yes, what I really appreciate. I really appreciate you sharing that and I also really appreciate the fact that you're openly sharing about the intimacy with your spouse, because we hear from a lot of people all the time that say, oh, pornography will totally just spice up your sex life, but what? And maybe that is at the very first, but as people get deeper in, it's exactly what you're saying to where the Intimacy is really gone. Right now it's just focused solely on sex, and we hear that that actually it Decreases the desire in a lot of cases for intimacy with your spouse because of what you, what people have over here, right, and so we actually hear a lot of couples are like the sex life with their spouse actually gets a lot worse and in some cases becomes almost non-existent, right, because Of that. So I mean that kind of sounds like a little bit with what you're saying as well too.

Jason: 15:47

Oh, oh, absolutely, and just practically speaking. If I know the just a few hours ago I had, I was looking at porn and Just recently had an orgasm. I know that if I try to have sex with my wife, yeah, it's not gonna work out, yeah, and so I'm not gonna initiate.

Jason: 16:12

And so maybe she initiates, and and because she's you know, feeling the lack of connection and maybe this will fix it. And so she initiates and it, but, like I expect, it doesn't go well. Yeah, and then the other times, even when it has been a while, even then there is the constant distraction of these other women in my mind and, and so you know, I so, yeah, it's not, it's, it's not the same, it doesn't get better and it doesn't help. It's, it's certainly.

HOST: 17:03

It certainly makes things much worse so you get fired from your job. What happens after that?

Jason: 17:09

Yeah. So, like I said, I was feeling deeply convicted about my sin this entire time and just Feeling more and more hopeless To do anything about it. So, so and at this point I kind of like to take a step back here and emphasize something that I thought I could live one life that appeared to be dedicated to serving the Lord. Well, simultaneously living a life dedicated to serving myself, and that was a lie.

Jason: 17:53

Proverbs 7 warns us to not be deceived by what it calls the strange woman who flatters with her words and wears the tire of a harlot, because many strong men have been slain by her and her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. James 1 also tells us that every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed. Then, when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. I think we tend to think of these passages as hyperbole or some kind of an exaggeration At least, I used to think that. But these aren't exaggerations at all, though. There really is a path of life and there really is a path of death.

Jason: 19:03

I was on the path of death, and it took me all the way to the point where I did try to end my life. So I had convinced myself that my wife would be better off not having to support a man without a job who spends all of his time looking at porn, and as a result I took my car and ran it into a telephone pole at 8 miles an hour. So obviously I'm still here, and that is entirely due to God's sovereign control over all things. He has the ability to override my decisions. I wanted to kill myself, I wanted to end it all, and God said no, that's not going to happen. I have other plans for you.

HOST: 20:01

Did you feel that right after that experience I mean obviously trying to kill yourself and being unsuccessful when you were unsuccessful did you immediately realize that God loves me, he has a plan for me and things are going to be okay? Or did that happen later on down the road? I mean that's miraculous. I mean he obviously has big things in store for you.

Jason: 20:29

Yeah Well, pretty much right afterwards, like I'm sitting there in the car still alive and I didn't even mention, I ran into the telephone pole and I guess there's part of you that does look at how incredibly designed our cars are that they can do this, but at the same time, it's all due to God, because I walked out of that and I didn't even have a scratch on me.

HOST: 21:09

Yeah, that was 100% got watching out for your for sure.

Jason: 21:13

Yeah, and I had even taken my seatbelt off because I was like I want to make sure that this happens. And so so I run into the telephone pole and the car stopped. And now I'm sitting there in the car and I'm like, well, that didn't work. So so, oh, pretty much immediately I was recognizing that well, god must have something else for me, because that that didn't work. And so now I was starting to realize that now I've got to explain this to my wife, that that you know, this is what's been going on and this is what I just tried to do, and all this, and obviously I knew that this is going to break our heart and and everything, but I can't hide it anymore.

Jason: 22:24

Obviously, you know there's not much you can do to explain away running into the telephone pole at 80 miles an hour. So so I did, and since then it I wouldn't say it's been happily ever after. I have. I'll even admit that I've started down that path of death a few more times, mainly because I'm just a thick headed fool. But over the years I have learned several things that do work and several things that don't work, and I would like to think that I'm catching myself headed down that path early on, earlier on the path. So so yeah.

HOST: 23:31

I think that's kind of where I kind of the bad side of the story and it gets so, so let's I'm as incredible what let's talk about the things that you said you started to be able to implement, or do that have helped you get back on that path, so to speak? What have you felt like have been the most successful things that you've done or implemented any resources, things like that?

Jason: 24:04

Sure. So, to start, I want to emphasize that, although some of the tools I'm going to be talking about are specifically focused on dealing with an addiction to porn, most of them are really just applicable to any persistent sin and that we're going to go with, because that's that's what porn is, that's sin, and so if you know how to deal with them, you know how to deal with an addiction to porn.

Jason: 24:39

That, I think should be clear, is not to minimize the problem with porn, it's to maximize the problem with sin. Yeah, so I found that the tools really fall into two categories. I'll admit that I'm somewhat of nerve this way, because I think of them in term, in economic terms. So there's both the supply side of the issue and also the demand side. So both are important and I think one gets emphasized more than the other on this issue, and I think that the side that gets emphasized the most is supply side, but that is important.

Jason: 25:34

So, with regards to that, I think the passage in Matthew 18, where Jesus describes what some had called radical amputation, is very helpful. He says and if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye then with two eyes to be thrown into that hellfire, hellfire. In other words, we should be willing to go to extreme measures to eliminate sources of temptation or loss. So some have recommended getting rid of smart a smartphone and using just a dumb phone. People have recommended getting rid of computers, things like that. I've heard people who go on business trips talk about how it is possible to request from the hotel management that the TV in your room be removed.

HOST: 26:46

So you know.

Jason: 26:48

those things are certainly legitimate options that should be seriously considered, Specifically with regards to limiting the supply of porn. We can also make use of various accountability tools. I personally use accountable to you. It's a software that monitors everything you do on any of your devices, both smart phones, computers, basically anywhere that you can get to internet browser, and since that information sends basically your entire history, whether it's in the browser or not, to designated accountability part.

HOST: 27:42

Nice, that's great.

Jason: 27:44

Yeah, and another software that I've heard is very good is Covenant Eyes so, and I think it does basically something similar. But I said that there's another side that I think gets emphasized less, and because if all we do is try to limit the supply of temptation, we're still going to fail. Because the fact is, no matter how high you build that wall around the temptation, if you don't eliminate your desire for the thing, for the thing that's on the other side of the wall, you can and will find a way around it. No software can catch everything and unless you completely withdraw from society, like some sort of permit or something, no amount of radical imputation is going to be radical enough.

HOST: 28:47

Yeah, I mean points to the point where it comes looking for you, whether you're looking for it or not, right?

Jason: 28:53

right, I mean, even if you were to go through the extreme of. You know, Matthew 18 describes tearing your eye out.

Jason: 29:00

Yeah even if you went to that extreme, you still have your thoughts, you still have other sources of data input into your brain and you're not going to be able to eliminate those unless you fix the desire or unless you remove the desire for the temptation. Yep, so true. So, yeah, we have to. We have to limit our desire for it. So there's really three things that I've found that are crucial for accomplishments. The first thing is spend a little bit of time, like 10 or 15 minutes every day, memorizing extended passages of scripture, little bits at a time, not just individual versus entire passages, and the reason I say that is for one it's fundamentally changed the way my brain works. I think the best way I can put it is the way Paul does. It renews my mind, and the reason I think it's done that is because it's turbocharged. I would say turbocharged my Bible study by transforming Bible reading from drudgery to active engagement. I've come to the realization that if all I'm doing is just reading the Bible and not memorizing it, I end up with one of two extremes I either just drag my eyes over the page and just do it because this is what I have to do and I don't really get anything out of it. Or, on the other hand, I go down the rabbit hole of what does this passage mean? Okay, there's a debate about this among different commentators. Who's right? Oh, there's this argument here and that argument there, and pretty soon the next thing you know I'm reading about sovereignty of God and the free will of man. So the way to avoid both extremes is with Bible memorization, because that focuses me on the text and it forces me to meditate on what the text says. And as I'm meditating on it, it reveals to me things that I never would have gotten with any kind of Bible study and just helps tremendously with understanding the text. And even if I don't understand every aspect of the text, when I'm memorizing it, at some point along the way I'm going to come across a situation, a circumstance that God is going to bring that text to my memory and you apply it in a way that I never would have realized before, and so that kind of Bible study has been extremely helpful. Love it.

Jason: 32:39

The second thing is spending just 10 or 15 minutes in prayer, and not just any kind of prayer, not a grocery-less kind of prayer, praying like your life depends on it, and I say that because it does quite literally Every day. I am in the position of the disciples in the Garden of Gissanomy who Jesus warned to watch and pray. And he warned them about that because he knew they were about to face the greatest spiritual battle of their lives. And they didn't follow his advice and they ended up failing that spiritual battle and failing that spiritual test. Peter described it as Satan is like the roaring lion walking about seeking for someone to devour, and if I'm not daily spending time in prayer I am weak and vulnerable.

Jason: 33:52

So those two things reading, studying scripture and prayer were the two things that originally caused me to get into the mess in the first place, because I wasn't doing that as a child and I think even as an adult. It is extremely instrumental. But then one last thing is having at least one guy friend, preferably multiple guy friends who are at least as spiritually mature as I am, who I can call at a moment's notice when I am struggling to resist temptation, love it. Texting is not enough, it's asynchronous. So you know, you text somebody and it could be several hours before they get back with you.

Jason: 34:49

But if you're in the midst of struggling against temptation, you need help right now, and so this is the true benefit of the accountability partners Giving them access to your browser history and checking in with them, confessing to them on a regular basis when you fall. That all is fine as far as it goes, but that alone does little to nothing to help. Intercessory prayer and spiritual encouragement are the true need if resistance in the moment of temptation is going to be successful at all.

HOST: 35:36

Well, I love how the first two things you talked about had to do with Jesus Christ, because it's through Christ that I mean he's going to give you the strength that you need, through his words, through prayer, to overcome these things. And Amy and I talk about this quite often and this is just something we've done in our marriage. But you talked about first about putting good things into your mind, right and, I think, the word of God right, by reading and studying and occupying your mind with that. And so one of the things Amy and I have done in our marriage is we've also eliminated, like we've decided as a couple, we're not going to watch rated R movies.

HOST: 36:15

You know, for a lot of people that may sound crazy, but for our marriage, if I'm, I can't even begin to tell you the impact that's had on me as a man, mentally, like, if I'm not seeing scenes of couples doing things and sex scenes and things like that, then those things aren't going in my mind.

HOST: 36:35

My mind is more clear, I can focus on other things and I can't even begin to express, just like, how positive that's been for me as a man and my mind is like I don't have those things in my mind because I'm not watching those things or I'm not, and I think a lot of times we feel like porn is like just all the hardcore stuff, right, but porn starts out with the little things that then gets our desires. I mean, I it's probably safe to say that most people that have gotten into porn didn't just jump right in the deep end. It all started with, maybe, you know, looking at swimsuit issues and then, you know, progressing further and further down the road, little by little, until all of a sudden you're like, wow, I, you know, how did I get here?

Jason: 37:25

And so I'll be honest, as a teenager with a supercharged sex drive that was turbocharged on porn, I would go to church and I would see, I would see girls there and I would be spending the entire service left being after them. Yeah, and you know, that's not a commentary on modesty, which I think is an important thing, but it's more of a commentary on the fact that when a man has a turbocharged sex drive there's he can lust after a woman in a burlap sack.

HOST: 38:11

Yeah.

Jason: 38:12

And there.

HOST: 38:13

Yeah, and that is the way we are designed as men, right? It's not a flaw, it's that's the way God designed us. So for people out there, it's not bad to have that sex drive. I mean, that is how we as men are designed and we're created in God's image. But you know, we need to do things to keep that under control, right, right.

Jason: 38:34

And when you've been speeding that good thing with trash.

HOST: 38:43

Yep.

Jason: 38:45

No, it's going to become bad. Yeah, hungar is a good thing, but the food tasty food was given to us by God to enjoy. Yeah, but when you take those good things and try to find all of your satisfaction in those things, it becomes gluttony, yeah, and that's not a good thing.

HOST: 39:15

That's. You're exactly right and I love. I love kind of just what you're saying and I think it's important to point out that. You know, sexual intimacy and sex is a wonderful thing. That's designed by God, but, just like everything else in life, you know that baseris, satan, takes the good things and turns them bad and so. But sex is a good thing, it's a, it's a, it's a godly thing and it's something that should be enjoyed between a husband and wife. And so what, as we wrap this up, I mean it's been an incredible interview, incredible story. What advice do you have for those that are struggling with porn? I mean, what I just guess before we get off the podcast, what last words or advice would you have for people that are struggling with porn in their lives?

Jason: 40:09

Well, I made the. I made the comparison between the path of life and the path of death. To get off the path of death, you got to cut out sources of temptation, and to get on the path of life, you have to pursue a relationship with Christ with everything that you've got. Don't look back. It won't be easy, but it is infinitely more satisfying, and so so, pursue that with everything that you've got.

HOST: 40:47

Yeah, wonderful. Well, I can't begin to thank you enough for being on the podcast with us today, and I know that your story and the things that you've experienced are truly going to be a miracle and a blessing to so many other people that are looking for that hope, and I know that through Jesus Christ, we can overcome anything, no matter what our struggles are, whether it's pornography or other sins. Through Jesus Christ we can be healed and overcome anything, and I've really sensed that come across in an interview today with you as well, and so, again, just can't thank you enough for being on with us today and what a wonderful podcast. So thank you again.

Jason: 41:36

Well, thanks for the opportunity and really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure.

HOST: 41:42

So we've. We've hope all of you have enjoyed the podcast today. We also have some resources we can share as well. Please reach out to us support at ultimateintimacycom if you have any questions for us. We hope you enjoyed this podcast as much as we did and until next time we hope you find ultimate intimacy in your relationship.